#FASuccess Ep 399: Maintaining Company Culture More Virtually (When Scaling Past $3B AUM With 10 Office Locations), With Kelli Kiemle

Resources Featured In This Episode:

• Kelli Kiemle
• Halbert Hargrove
• Halbert Hargrove Mentorship Agreement – Download (PDF)
• Mark McGraw
• Sandler

Looking for sample client service calendars, marketing plans, and more? Check out our FAS resource page!

Are you a successful financial advisor, or do you know of one that would be a great fit for the Financial Advisor Success podcast? Fill out this form to be considered!

Full Transcript:

Michael: Welcome, Kelli Kiemle, to the "Financial Advisor Success" podcast.

Kelli: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Michael: Really appreciate you joining us today. I'm looking forward to talking a little bit about the dynamics that come when firms grow to a certain size, and you have to start really caring about and being intentional about the culture of the company, the business. And culture means one of those things, if you've been in a larger firm, usually like really clear about what culture is like, and that different firms have different cultures. In a small firm environment, and often when we're running our own practices as advisors, we don't really think about culture because it's like the firm is what it is in the early years. The firm is me, and the people that work for me. I don't really have a culture, or set a culture. You work for me, that's the culture around here.

And then as the business grows, and I find especially when you start expanding to multiple locations, and there's this whole phenomenon of, "What do my team members do when I'm not there, because it's "They're in another location, I'm not there." And all of a sudden, culture starts to matter a lot more. I think, for some firms, it maybe accelerated further in the pandemic because if you have to go virtual, and all your team is not in one place, it's another version of how does culture get expressed when not everybody is physically in one office location together to kind of set and cement the culture? And I know, you're in a larger advisory firm that has expanded to multiple locations and multiple cities over years of growing into a multibillion-dollar firm.

And so I'm just excited to start talking about how you think about culture and keeping all team members feeling like they're part of one firm when you really start growing to the point where there's lots of locations, and they start dispersing. You have to figure out how to somehow keep it together when they're spread out.

Kelli: Yeah, definitely. It's definitely something that we have to focus on constantly, and it's something that we spend a lot of energy, a lot of time on. It's kind of like that blood, sweat, and tears of making sure that everyone feels like they're part of the team. And I think it goes way beyond when I started at the firm. It was deeply rooted. We became an RIA in 1989, and the core values were already kind of developed at that point by our...he was our CEO previously, Russ Hill. He's now our executive chairman. But I think he developed the core values that we still to this day kind of live by. But it is something that, as a management team, as individual managers that we focus on constantly. And it's something that we're constantly evolving to.

I think you hit it very correctly that the pandemic accelerated this. We were so used to being in the office every day, and we had our processes and procedures and our connection points for regional offices then. And obviously, it dramatically changed when everyone was sent home and we had to work right home, and we had to restrategize and find new ways to connect. I think we have been successful. I think it took some time to figure it out. But I think we have certain things that we do on a weekly basis, on a monthly basis, on a quarterly basis to make sure we stay connected with everyone in the firm.

What Halbert Hargrove Looks Like Today [07:03]

Michael: I want to dig further into what you are doing to try to create and maintain these connections across the firm. But I think before we dive into some of the details of what you're doing, can you just give us a little bit further context of the advisory business itself as it exists today? Just so we understand the overall context of the firm of the company.

Kelli: Yes. So we're $3.1 billion under management. We have just under 50 employees. We have 10 offices. The farthest East that we have is Denver. So we're mostly on the West Coast. And we focus on high net worth individuals. Our minimum is $750,000. I would say our sweet spot is about $2–$7 million. As far as clients, we have 750 families and individuals that work with us.

Michael: I think you said the firm has been around doing this for a very long time. You started in 1989?

Kelli: Yeah. We became an RIA in 1989, but we actually...

Michael: What were you previously?

Kelli: ...started in 1933. It was a broker dealer. And I went through the transition of when we closed our broker dealer. That was a long time ago, probably a couple of years after I started. So we are completely an RIA now. We don't have any conflicts. There's no broker-dealer anymore.

Michael: Interesting. So the firm has truly kind of lived the entire evolution of being a broker dealer, introducing an RIA, and effectively being a hybrid firm. And then eventually winding down the broker dealer and "just" being a standalone independent RIA.

Kelli: Correct. Yes. That evolution has happened. Some of that happened while I was here, and some of it happened previously. But it sounds like, at this point, you've completed that evolution. I mean, what you're describing of firm's AUM and clientele and staffing, it sounds like you run a...I don't mean this in a negative way, but you have a very traditional RIA business at this point. It sounds like you're showing up similar to how other RIAs work, not as a legacy of being a hybrid firm that still has a lot of broker dealer business around.

Kelli: Yes, correct.

Michael: All right. So that helps to visualize. And even just when you say 50 team members across 10 offices, okay, there's a lot of dispersion here. And I'm assuming a larger chunk are in some kind of home office. And then there are more smaller offices dispersed, or are these all fairly evenly sized, like 4–6 people here, there, and everywhere?

Kelli: Yeah, our headquarters is in Long Beach, California, and that's where most of our staff is located. Each of the regional offices usually has between 2 and 3 people. A couple of them have expanded just because people have done relocations. But on average, I would say our regional offices have 2 or 3 people, and most people are out of our Long Beach headquarters.

Michael: So kind of majority is central, other half or slightly less than half is spotted all over these regional office locations.

Kelli: Correct. And that's on purpose. We like having our staff in our headquarters. I think that helps with communication. Each of our teams are assigned probably 3 team members that are centrally located here. I think it's really helpful to have kind of ears and eyes in our headquarters so that they're making sure that each of their teams is aware of what's happening, what's changing. We do a good job as a firm of communicating that, but I do think it's been helpful over the years to have kind of a central location. And everything we do is centralized, too. It's institutionalized. So every team is operating very similarly. We have a trading team here in Long Beach that does all of our trading for our entire firm. The client service managers are all here, our operations team. So it's all done kind of from this headquarters.

Michael: So I'm sort of inferring, most of the people who are in regional offices, not in HQ, tend to be the client-facing advisors themselves who are simply there with clients in that local geographic region, while most of the rest of the team and staff infrastructure really is more centrally located around HQ.

Kelli: Yes, that's correct. Yes. Most of them are advisors.

Halbert Hargrove's 4 Core Values [11:58]

Michael: Now, given that, just help us understand a little bit more how the firm thinks about know these...I was going to say squishy topics. What are your core values? What is your culture that you're trying to create at the firm?

Kelli: Yeah. So we have 4 core values that have, like I said, been around, I think before I was even here. But I think we've done a better job of defining what those mean. The first one is we are fearless. And I think that that is true across internally, externally. It's something that kind of drives what we do. As a manager, because I manage quite a few people at the firm, having what we call fearless conversations, I really think about...and this is how we think about with our clients too, that telling them the truth, giving them feedback, not skirting around tough issues, that is an investment in their future. So that is something that we really focus on.

Another way that we kind of show that we are fearless is through "Gladiator Stories." And those are success stories where we've had to go to bat for our clients. We either had to have a tough conversation with a family member, or we identified something that wasn't working. So that is something that I would say applies both internally and externally outside of the firm.

Michael: And you call these Gladiator Stories?

Kelli: We do. We call them Gladiator Stories.

Michael: Because you fought fearlessly.

Kelli: We fought fearlessly. And it's something that we talk about at our...we used to have quarterly all hands on deck meetings. Now we have twice a year in person, and then twice a year virtually. Each time, 5 or 6 people in the firm will nominate each other to talk about a story where either they did something for the firm that was outside of the norm, or something above and beyond, or with a client as well. Or even with the CEO. We've had stories kind of run the gamut. But it's really to recognize, "Okay, this is what happened." Share the success. Talk about how they were fearless. And it's been such a success for our firm because it brings everyone together. Anyone in the firm, regardless of your role, can nominate someone for a gladiator story.

Michael: Very cool. Okay. So number one on core values is we are fearless, and we celebrate with Gladiator Stories that get read out at all hands. So what what comes next?

Kelli: The next one is we are constantly improving. And I think this can run, again, lots of different avenues. Education is a huge part of who we are as a firm. The firm supports pretty much any education endeavor that anyone at the firm wants to do, as long as that makes sense for the firm. I've looked at doing a Master's in communication, but we have people that have completed MBAs, and the firm completely supports that, and we'll give you time off. We actually do reimburse for people's MBAs over a period of time. We pay for CFPs. We also give people time off to go study for their CFP so that they can pass it and continue moving on with their career. So that's one way that we're constantly improving.

I think another one is we're always looking at how we can get better. Our investment committee is always seeking out, "Okay, what's the next new best product that we could have?" We're looking at the new trends. Right now, AI is a huge topic. We have an AI [Artificial Intelligence] committee dedicated to researching and finding out what we can do here at the firm that makes sense for our firm, and how we can implement it. So there's a group of people that is constantly looking at that, and that's led by Shane Cummings on our team. So I think that's just who we are.

I also think it's important to recognize when we've made mistakes too. And we just recently formalized a new...so it's the opposite of a gladiator story. We call it a GGG, "Goofs that Give us Guidance," and it's talking about where we've made a mistake. And sharing it with the whole group, number one, maybe we'll eliminate that problem for someone else, or maybe it's just something that we share and we learn from as a group. So I think that was a very powerful session that we just introduced in the last quarter.

Michael: So now we have Gladiator Stories of fearlessness, and GGG stories of Goofs that Give us Guidance, and lessons learned. Is this a similar gather stories, share it all hands? Is that the structure?

Kelli: Exactly. Since it's a new thing, and we didn't know how comfortable people would be talking about their mistakes, we did do this in a smaller setting. So it was all hands, but we were at our kind of individual tables. So there was tables of probably 8 people, and we shared it kind of in a smaller group. Some people were willing to share it with the bigger group, but I think it was definitely a moment of vulnerability for everyone on the team. And I think it was really, really powerful.

Michael: Very cool. All right, so what's next on the list?

Kelli: The other 2 are a little softer, but we have fun. I think that's a huge part of who we are as a culture. When we gather, it's a good time. We have drinks, we have dinner, we do teambuilding exercises. We've done anything from paintball to driving cars. We had someone come in and teach us all about how to make pizza. We've done pretty much anything you could imagine, we've done as a group, and I think that has definitely kind of made our culture sticky as well. We have a social committee that's literally assigned to come up with good ideas for the group. We do something at least monthly, and then when everyone's in town, we also do it as a group as well at those kind of all hands on deck.

And if we're virtual, we usually have virtual things that we've done. We've done cocktail making virtually, and we did a game show thing virtually. So really, they're committed to making sure that we're connecting on a different level, not just at work, but on a personal level as well, which I think goes a long way in building that teamwork that we're trying to have.

Michael: And you engage in these kinds of activities on a monthly basis?

Kelli: At least monthly. So at least monthly we're doing something. But sometimes it's twice a month. Sometimes it's something smaller. We had wear your favorite jersey day and bring your favorite dip, or we've had kind of silly ones too. You have to talk like a pirate. It kind of just really runs the gamut. We were definitely creative and trying to think of new ideas, but there really could be anything. But at least monthly, sometimes more.

Michael: Okay. And then what's the 4th core value?

Kelli: Yeah, the 4th core value is we give back. That has been something that, again, I think goes way beyond me. Russ Hill, our executive chairman, has kind of led the charge there. He has been so involved in the community and giving back, not only locally in Long Beach, but also with his alma mater, Stanford. But we do it at the firm level. We're constantly looking at sponsorships. We do a lot of sponsorships. Some of them we talk about, and some of them we keep more behind the scenes just because they're more personal things. We also do a lot of activities. We sponsor lunches at a couple organizations here. We have a group of us that volunteer time reading for Chapter One. We we read with first graders.

And then also it's very highly encourage for individuals to give back as well. We will give people time off to go volunteer at their kids' school or to work with a local charity. They just put on their calendar and they're out for a couple of hours. And that's kind of what we do. We also do a charitable match up to $1,000 a year for any individual in the firm, as long as it's a 501(c)(3). So, any benefit that we have, we try and match to our core values as well.

Michael: All right. So I have 2 questions here. One, I'm curious more about sponsorships. And you said there's some more visible, some more personal behind the scenes. I mean, is this, I can come to the firm privately to say, "Hey, can you sponsor this thing that I'm involved with, but we're not necessarily advertising it." I guess I'm just trying to visualize how this works, or who requests what, or how they request they want a sponsorship.

Kelli: Yeah. Mostly, we've had some clients request sponsorships for organizations that they feel passionate about. And we've done those. They're not organizations that the firm supports, but we will do it there. We had an associate that his child's sports team couldn't afford their uniforms, and asked for us to pay for them. And we ended up doing it. So some of them are kind of under the radar. We had another one where there was a baseball sponsorship that they couldn't get anyone to do. And so we did do that. So that's what I meant when it's kind of not something that we would publicly probably promote.

Michael: Okay. This isn't, we're not advertising to get our multimillion-dollar firm clients with the uniforms for the local sports team or anything. We're doing this because it's part of our core value, and it's important to our team.

Kelli: Exactly. And I think, in the past, it's who we support has been more driven kind of at the senior management level. And we just recently did a really cool exercise actually that Cecilia Williams, our COO, created. And we actually were in small groups, and we actually had to pitch which organization we should support next. And we were offering $1,000 to whatever team won. And that was really interesting because we got to know more about what the individuals in our firm are looking to support. It was really powerful because the passion that came and the people that presented made me think, "We definitely need to expand our reach. We need to think about new organizations to support. We need to bring in the team, and make sure that we're making an impact where they want us to make an impact, too." So I think that's been really eye-opening recently as well.

Aligning Company Benefits To The Firm's Core Values [23:03]

Michael: Very cool. Very cool. And so you said, overall, you try to align your benefits to your core values. I guess I'm just curious, are there other sort of examples in context of benefits that you have that you think about as being aligned to core values?

Kelli: Yeah, I think I already mentioned the education, so that's a big part of it that we will sponsor pretty much any type of education. I've seen it firsthand how powerful it can be. We've had a couple MBAs get completed. I also mentioned that we give back, so we do a match on any sponsorships as well. And then the constantly improving, also. I think there's a couple that we do for people that have families. Any child that is born, we start them with a 529 right away, with a $500 donation. And then we do a match. As long as the employee is doing it monthly, $25, we'll match up to $25 a month for as many kids that they have. So I think that really matches. We're focused on the next generation, too. We're not just focused on the employee, but we're focused on their whole family.

I think another one that some people are a little bit surprised that we do is we do a child care allowance, too. And again, that's to try and make sure that we're taking care of not just our employee, but their kids as well. And so we know how much a burden can be on child care. During the pandemic, we raised it up to a higher amount, but our normal match is $600 a month. And then we just recently did a $1,000 a month for summer just because summer camps and childcare just gets more expensive there. So I think that's another way that we're looking at the whole picture, and making sure that we take care of not only the employee but also their families as well.

Michael: So I've got to ask in this context, I've heard questions like this come up for some firms. Do you get concerned in a context where a team member who doesn't have kids is like, "How come they get an extra $600 a month? Where's my 'I don't have kids, I'm trying to do other things' $600 a month allowance?" Does that come up? Is that a concern, or is that a story we tell ourselves?

Kelli: We haven't heard that as a concern. We are obviously cognizant of that because we're always thinking, "Okay, what's the next benefit that we can offer?" That's not the only benefits that we offer. We also have a health and wellness, where we will reimburse for that. We do have unlimited vacation, or responsible vacation is what we call it. And people definitely take advantage of that, too. I know people say that they don't.

Michael: What does responsible vacation means?

Kelli: It means that it's unlimited as long as you're getting your work done, and your team has approved. And it makes sense for you to be out at that point. So just making sure that you're not leaving your team hanging, you're getting your work done. And as long as that's happening, then we're not really tracking it. It's as much time as you need. The only time I'm really tracking it is if I notice someone isn't taking time off. I am very vocal that it's, "You need to make sure you're recharging. We ask a lot of you as an employee. We want to see you continue to grow. And I don't want to see you burn out. So I think it's time for you to plan something or take some time off." So I think, as managers, we're actually more cognizant of the people not taking enough time.

You can see it, you can see the burnout, you can see the frustration sometimes if you're not letting yourself recharge. I have an individual on my team, and he wasn't taking any time. It was an agenda item for a long time. And finally, I think we hit a turning point, and that's one of his goals now, is to make sure he's taking time off to take care of himself and recharge.

Michael: And so is this literally something you track? I mean, is there a dashboard, a tracking system where you turn to red if you don't have a certain number of days of PTO by mid-year?

Kelli: I don't know if there's a dashboard per se, but we track it on what we call our Halbert Hargrove calendar that everyone can see in the firm. So you know if someone's out or not out. But I have a pretty good pulse on...because that's something we talk about when I meet with them on an individual basis. I meet with my direct reports at least monthly, some of them I meet with every 2 weeks for 30 minutes. So I have a pretty good pulse of what they're doing at work and personally.

And we talk about, "Okay, what do you have upcoming that you're looking forward to? What is something you could plan that would help you kind of get through this hard time?" I wouldn't say it's a dashboard, but I think we have a pretty good pulse on what's happening.

Holding In-Person Gatherings To Educate And Build Camaraderie [27:56]

Michael: Now, help us understand, you had said earlier that a big part of what you've been focusing on as the firm is growing, is this keeping connections, maintaining your culture. So talk to us a little bit more now about the things you've been doing. I think you said there's weekly stuff, there's monthly stuff, there's quarterly. Just what are the things that you're doing now to try to maintain the cohesiveness, as suddenly you've got advisors across 10 different locations, or team across 10 different locations.

Kelli: Yeah, I think the key is communication and we definitely know people need to hear things. They need to see from us, they need to hear from us. So I would say there's a couple different things that we're doing. We definitely bring everyone to Long Beach twice a year. We have meetings all day, we have dinners, we do team building. This November we actually have a special 2-day gathering where the spouses or partners or friend can come with our employee. And we're going to celebrate for 2 days that we hit our $3 billion mark. So that's something that we do occasionally as well.

Michael: Let me understand the meetings twice a year, though. It sounds like if the November celebration is a special 2-day one for hitting the $3 billion milestone, that the normal standard is a 1-day gathering?

Kelli: One to 2 days, depending on the agenda. Usually people will fly in on Thursday. We'll have meetings, dinner, and then they'll stay for half a day on Friday. And then everyone goes their own way after lunch on Friday. So, usually, there are about 2 days when everyone comes in regardless. This one's a little longer, actually. We're going to stay for 2 nights and we're doing it offsite, so it's not exactly here.

Michael: So the normal would be fly in on a Thursday morning, meetings in the afternoon, dinner, meetings on Friday morning, and then fly out Friday afternoon?

Kelli: Correct. Yeah. Some people will fly in on Wednesday night because we will host something usually Wednesday night too, more of a social event. It's not mandatory. It's if you want to make it. And so we do have people that will fly in just so they don't have to do the early morning commute. It used to be 4 times a year. After the pandemic, we moved it to 2. And then 2 other times a year, we do a virtual version of the same thing, we're just not together, where we have an all hands meeting for 2 days. We do some team building, we do a lot of updates. We have some speakers come in. So really, we're together 4 times a year all together like that.

Michael: And can you share a little bit more of what's on the agenda through this? I mean, what do you do when you bring 50 people together and say, "Be more team-y."

Kelli: Cecilia is our leader for this. Cecilia Williams, our COO. She leads our quarterly meetings like this. So usually, we start with lunch. We eat a lot. I think sitting and eating is really important. We sit as groups, everyone kind of picks where they want to sit. Then we usually do an icebreaker. Like I said before, we did a charitable one this time. We've done where you kind of have to...was it put spaghetti and see how high you can get it? So it really runs the gamut what the icebreaker could be. Then we usually talk about either milestones, promotions, awards that people have received, more business housekeeping. We also talk about our results. Where are we as far as our strategy goes? What are the core things that we're focusing on, our rocks for the quarter? So that's a big piece of it at the beginning.

Then a lot of times, we'll have an outside speaker. This last time, we had someone come in and talk about cybersecurity, both for us personally and also professionally. We also usually have someone in the firm talk about something. Russ, actually, was talking about longevity this last time, but we've had the investment committee speak. It really kind of depends on what we're focusing on that time. And then usually after that, we're headed to drinks and dinner. The next morning, we usually are in small groups. This time I actually talked about our growth initiatives with...and it was a rotation. We had another person on our compliance team talk about the DoL [Department of Labor] rules, and going over our guidelines. So it's a little bit of training.

And then we had another associate talk about what she had learned at a women's conference recently about supporting our clients that are going through a health scare, and how we can be better supportive of them, and ideas of how we can support not only them but also the caretaker as well, and what we can do for them as a firm. So it's more of a brainstorming. So mine was more of an update. Brenden Melrose, our chief compliance officer, was more of a training, and Julia Pham was more of, "Let's brainstorm on how we can do better as far as client service goes around, people that are dealing with a health scare."

Michael: Okay. And so why 2 in-person and 2 virtual as opposed to all virtual or all in-person? What led to the mix or the balance?

Kelli: I think it's exactly that. I think we need a little more balance. I think the regional offices, I think it was becoming a little much to fly in 4 times a year for that amount of time. I think we still do like the in-person element. It is different. You get to mingle, and the little conversations that happen while you're walking around the office, or people pop in, it's just different. It does feel different. But we did feel like it was time to kind of make an adjustment, that it was a little much to have them come in that many times.

Michael: And that's even with, as you noted, your West Coast base, your furthest East location is Denver. So you're not managing people flying all the way across the country, which gets really long for travel. But even being regionally concentrated, quarterly fly-ins were getting tiring.

Kelli: I think so. It didn't feel like we were getting enough. It also gives us flexibility. If we don't have enough on the agenda for those meetings, then those virtual ones are very easy to just move to one day, and then we give people a day back. And we've done that. I definitely think we're fluid in what makes sense. We used to be very, "No, this is how we do it, and we're not going to make any adjustments, and we're going to make up content so that we can have these meetings." And I don't think we're like that anymore. I think we're a little bit more like, "Okay, let's make sure we're using this time valuably. And if it doesn't make sense, then we can make it shorter."

Using A Regular Meeting Cadence And Company Newsletter To Keep The Team On The Same Page [35:09]

Michael: So what else? So quarterlies with this mixture of in-person and virtual. So what else falls into the "keep the team connected" cadence here?

Kelli: Yeah. So we have all hands on meetings every week. Some weeks, it's more focused on the whole firm, and updates, and things that people need to know, or changes in procedures, or just announcements. And we always start the meeting with how we're doing as far as our strategy goes. "Okay, this is what our goal is. This is where we're at. This is where each salesperson is." So that's how we start every meeting regardless. But some meetings are all hands where it's all kind of the training and the updates and stuff like that. And if we don't have enough for that agenda, then we have a sales-only meeting where we're talking to all of the advisors, and we're talking more about sales process and follow up and things like that. We have a weekly meeting regardless, so that brings all of the regional people together.

Michael: When and how long is the weekly? How do you run that?

Kelli: Yeah. So every Monday morning. It starts at 8:30 Pacific. We have an hour reserved for it. We never go over. I'm very cognizant of that. I run both of these meetings. We sometimes used to go over. This is not a new meeting. It's just that we're very cognizant of, "Okay, we have an hour, let's use our hour." But if we're shorter, sometimes we go 45 minutes, sometimes it's 30. But we do have a meeting scheduled for an hour every Monday morning.

Michael: And I guess, only because I'm numbers, data, metrics, KPIs nerd, I am curious to hear more what are the goals, metrics you read out? It sounds like you've got a standard set of metrics that you update on in the weeklies. What are those touchstone metrics that you like to come back to on a weekly basis?

Kelli: Yeah. So we definitely focus on what our quarterly goal is, what our annual goal is, which is 60 net new clients for the year. And then quarterly, it's broken down to 15. So we're talking about the progression of, "This is the gross amount. And if we've lost any clients, this is the net amount." We're also looking at, "At the individual level, what is their individual goal for the year?" Say it's 10 net new clients they're going to bring in, where are they at compared to that goal? And we have a chart that shows that. Then we look at what assets are coming our way. So we have a report in our CRM system, and we're pulling up anything that we're kind of doing onboarding or we're funding. It's at the stage of we've gotten a yes, and we're in process of onboarding them as a new client.

And our client service managers actually will give the update on that. And then we're looking at any opportunities that are coming to the firm $100,000 or more in the next month. And so we read off of those. We give a status update. If there's ever an issue with something, we brainstorm as a team too, "I'm really struggling with this lead. They're not doing this. Does anyone have anything that could help or work that they've used that could help kind of push them forward?" So those are the main things that we're looking at on a weekly basis.

Michael: Okay. So very focused around sort of growth, growth of clients, movement of assets, growth of revenue. That's very tied to those business metrics.

Kelli: Definitely. The net new clients is the main metric that we're focused on.

Michael: Okay. And I guess I just got to ask for the sake of asking, why reading it out every week? I mean, I'm assuming it only moves so much every week. How do you think about you reading out and coming back to this goal every week as part of a weekly all hands?

Kelli: Accountability? It's making sure we're paying attention. We'll ask questions if we've seen something kind of sit for a while. But it's mostly about accountability and making sure everyone knows that we're kind of all watching it. And it's a team effort. When we're onboarding a client, it's not the advisor anymore, really. They're involved, but we have a team of 3 usually that's kind of doing most of the heavy lifting to onboard clients. So just to make sure everyone's on the same page, everyone knows what's happening.

Michael: What else fits into this spectrum of communication and keeping the team connected. So we've got weekly all hands, we've got quarterlies with a mix of fly in, or virtual. So is there more that fits into the spectrum?

Kelli: Yeah. So each individual group, so the wealth advisors or the client service managers, they have monthly meetings too where we talk about, "This is something new we're rolling out from the wealth advisory committee. This is a new procedure that we need to put in place." So we're meeting with them on a monthly basis too. So we're talking about things there. We're talking about issues. So that's another way. The individual teams have weekly team meetings, so they meet for 30 minutes to an hour weekly to talk about, "These are the client meetings that we have coming up. These are the prospects that we're onboarding. These are some high level client service items that we need to keep track of. These are some milestone moments or issues that our individuals, clients are having," so that everyone's on the same page. So it's really kind of a recentering meeting weekly as well. So that's another way. Both the group, so the individual kind of role meetings happen monthly, and then the individual teams happen weekly as well.

Like I said before, communication is huge because I've heard different stats, but I have heard that some people need to hear things 6 or 7 times, which has taken me a long time to wrap my head around because I'm someone that can hear something once and I usually remember it. But I think that we're trying to hit them in different ways. And individuals also meet with their managers at least monthly, sometimes twice a month. So, really, it's just all about communication and making sure everyone's on the same page. And that everyone's been heard. We listen to everything. We are receptive to hearing feedback. It goes back to one of our core values that we're constantly improving. It literally is something, if you have feedback on something, if it makes sense, it's like, "Okay, I like that feedback. I will roll with that myself." Or, "Hey, I like that idea. Why don't you come up with a plan for that, and present it to me or present it to one of the management team? Let's make it better then."

Michael: What else fits into this framework of team communication, team culture, team support?

Kelli: Yeah, I think the last thing I would highlight is that we do do a monthly newsletter. That is something we haven't always done, but I actually really like the way it's been redesigned. Julianne on our team in Ops, she gets credit for creating the new version of it. But it highlights...we highlight individuals' performances. We'll say, "This is the CSM [Client Service Manager] that brought on the most new clients this month." We're also giving shout outs, so anyone in the firm can shout out and call out someone that did something great, whether it's within the firm, or with a client, or they created a new deliverable for us. So there's a whole page dedicated to that. It's a 4-page newsletter. So there's other updates. Again, we're trying to hit people in different ways. Some people need to see it multiple times. So we'll give any...

Michael: Is this like a 4-page printed physical newsletter?

Kelli: It's not printed. We email it out, so it's digital, but it's 4 pages and it's digital. And there's different headings, and different departments give their updates and things like that.

Michael: So department updates, individual shout outs, and performance celebrations. Is that the core of it?

Kelli: Yeah. The core of it. And there's pictures. So any events we've had as a firm, there's new pictures implemented into the newsletter, so it kind of shows what we've been doing for fun as well. But it is kind of broken down into those different sections.

Michael: Okay. So anything else in this framing of what you're doing around supporting culture and trying to keep team connected? Is there in-person and virtual, remote and dispersed?

Kelli: Yeah. I said the last time it was the last thing, but we do do visits too. So couple of times a year, someone from the management team will go to each of the regional offices, whether that's for an event, or just to have a meeting, or to do a social engagement. We do go visit our offices too and engage on that level as well.

Getting New Team Members Up To Speed Through Training And (Mandatory) Mentorship [44:53]

Michael: I've got to ask, how does this work when someone new comes into the organization, has to get up to speed on all the different structures and systems and stuff that happens? Do you just, "It is how it is," and everything gets thrown on your calendar and you figure it out? Or is there more of an acclimation process around the structure that you've got?

Kelli: Yeah. So we have onboarded some new people within the firm in the last couple of years. It's 3-fold. You have someone that's training you, there's a direct person that's assigned to train you. And if they're in a regional office, that trainer is going to their regional office and sitting with them multiple times. So whether they go out for a week, and then they come back for a week, and they go back out. So that's one of them. We also have our mentorship program, so they have that connection. And then our managers are all very hands on as well. When you're first starting out, you're having weekly meetings with your manager as well. Like I said, we do formal training, but then we also have new people to the firm meet with all of the people that run each of our big departments. So the trading manager always meets with every new employee. From the marketing perspective, I'll meet with everyone to talk about what we're doing and how it works.

So we're trying to give them a high-level overview of everything in the firm. It's definitely overwhelming. It's definitely a lot of information. We try to spread it out. But I think, because we have kind of 3 different people that they can talk to at any one point, their trainer, their manager, and then their mentor, I think it makes it a little bit more manageable because we have so many dedicated people to make sure that they fit in well within the firm.

Michael: And so how does mentorship work in your firm? You mentioned that is a part of it. I'm familiar with managers doing training and meeting with department leaders. But mentorship I hear less often amongst advisory firms as like a formal program. So can you share with us more what the firm's doing from a mentorship perspective?

Kelli: Yeah. We created a formal mentorship program a couple of years ago. This is something that I'm very passionate about because I think it's so important in the progression of people's careers. And seeing how people grow is so important. But we did start small. We had some procedures, and we had some protocol, and we picked a couple people we thought were struggling a little bit in their roles, or in what they would like to do. And so we paired them up with people that we felt really lived and breathed our core values. So a lot of people at first were from our core leadership team. So that's how we started.

It's still available to anyone in the firm, but we're more focused now on people that are brand new to the firm. So it's required your first 2 years of being employed at Halbert Hargrove, you will meet with your mentor at least once a month. Some people meet more often. We leave it up to them, but we do ask once a month. And then the other group of people that we're targeting are people that are in transition. So whether they're getting promoted, or we've had some people completely flip flop in roles, we also assign a mentor there as well. I think, right now, we have about 12 people participating in our mentorship program, and they're at different places in their kind of progress.

Some people are still within that 2 years. I have a couple mentees that I've been working with for 4 or 5 years at this point. It's just they become friends, and I think they've become more than the mentor-mentee relationship. We learn from each other. So I think it's just so important to have someone that maybe has a little more experience than you to ask the questions that you're kind of maybe afraid to ask your manager, or feel dumb asking your manager about. It just feels a little bit easier to talk to them about it.

Michael: So how many people are mentors? I think you said there's I guess 12 mentees participating in the program. How many people are mentors to support this?

Kelli: I would say we have probably 8 unique mentors right now because a couple of us have 2. But it's constantly growing as well. So it's dependent on need. I think there's a lot of people at the firm that are willing to do it, but right now I think we have anywhere between 8 and 10 people that are mentoring different people. And these are formal. There's a lot more mentoring happening informally as well. But that is, I would say, in the formal where they've signed the agreement, and they're committed to doing their meetings.

Michael: Wait, there's an agreement?

Kelli: There's an agreement. Yes. We have written procedures of how the meetings should be conducted, what they should talk about. Just people needed more guidance on what are topics you should check in on, and things like that. And then we do have them sign, both the mentor and the mentee, an agreement that they're going to fulfill kind of that commitment of meeting with them once a month.

Michael: All right. So now I want to know, what is the structure of the meeting? What do they cover? What are they supposed to be talking about?

Kelli: You try to start open ended because you want to see, "How how's it going? What's happening?" And it's not just about work. It could be about personal, too. We have the same philosophy that you do kind of on that iceberg. You kind of know what's happening, but you're also like, "Well, what's underneath there?" So I think we always start open ended. And then we always will dig in to, "What issues are you dealing with? Are there any concerns that you have? Are you enjoying what you're doing? Is there anything we could do that would make it a better experience at work?" So we're asking, "How are you doing on your goals? Are you struggling with anything?" So it really kind of runs the gamut. But I would say we do try to stay open ended to start, because, honestly, the conversation can go anywhere, depending on what they're dealing with at that one moment in their lives.

Michael: So is there some standard series of questions or things that you want to cover or try to cover? Or is that sort of the list that you just gave, "Issues you're dealing with, concerns you have? Are you enjoying what you're doing? What can make it a better experience?"

Kelli: Exactly. "What can I do to help you fulfill your goals? Is there any exposure that you want in the firm that we haven't been able to give you yet, but you're interested in?" That's really the list. Those are the types of questions that we're asking.

Michael: And why sign?

Kelli: Just commitment, accountability, making sure they understand kind of what goes into being a mentor, and making it a serious commitment to each other so it's not just something you say you're going to do, but it's something that you actually fulfill and do.

Michael: So how do you mentor-match? Do people request a particular mentor? They just say, "I want a mentor." Is there just a pool of mentors and a pool of mentees, and someone's job once a month is to look over the list and be matchmaker of new additions? How do you actually facilitate these things to get going and get started if you're trying to do it on an ongoing repeatable basis?

Kelli: It's at the manager's discretion usually. They're the ones, if they're an entry level person that's just coming in, what are their interests, where do they lie? And so sometimes it's more of a personality where like, "We think this person would mesh really well with this." Usually, when we're onboarding someone as a new employee, anyone on senior management has interviewed them, so they get a sense of who they are. So, usually, it's a brainstorming like, "This is who's available, this is who we're thinking of. Based on their interest in investments, maybe Brian Spinelli, our CIO makes sense." And sometimes we debate, and sometimes it's like, "No, we don't think that's the right person." So really it's the management team that's making those decisions. Anyone can ask to be mentored, and then we would just pair them up.

Michael: Curious, if you've been doing this for a while, how has it changed? Because I'm going to assume there are ways that you did this or things that you did early on as you were rolling this out that you were fine or don't do anymore. So where did it change or evolve from what mentoring started and what it is now for you?

Kelli: We started a lot smaller. It was never mandatory. It was not new employee. I think we've expanded kind of who we expect to do the mentorship program. I think we were, like I said, focused more on people that were struggling or needed more guidance. I think we've put more parameters than we used to have. We didn't used to have a requirement of, "You need to meet monthly." I think that was a mistake. I think that we fixed that. I think there were people that needed more help, and their mentor or mentee wasn't scheduling meetings regularly. They were getting a little bit lost. And so, now, knowing that they're required to do a monthly meeting, I think that's helped a lot.

Michael: Because I was going to ask, why is it better to mandate it monthly? My principal, I want to be flexible and do the things I want to do when I want to do them. It's like, "Why do you have to make this mandatory?"

Kelli: Especially if they're in the mentee role, and they're supposed to be making these meetings, especially early on, if they haven't built a relationship yet, "Hey, I need you to go interrupt someone that you know is busy." So now, it's just they know it's happening. They can have their agenda, they can be prepared. I think that's another thing that we've recommended is that the mentee has an agenda of items. It's hard to think of things that have happened in the last month on the spot. So as issues come up, or if they have questions about why do we do something, because I think sometimes that gets missed in training is why they're doing something, where does that fit in the greater context of the firm? And I think that really is important for them to understand. So we ask them to keep an agenda too, of items that they would like to discuss at their next meeting.

Michael: My take hearing about it, a lot of the structure and sort of mandatory pieces essentially come down to mentees who need help may not know how to ask for it, or be comfortable asking for it, or take the initiative to ask for it. So we're just going to create enough structure to make sure that the conversation is happening, even if they're struggling to initiate it themselves because we know they need it and we believe in mentoring.

Kelli: Exactly.

Michael: So how do you evaluate success? I mean, is there a way you try to look at it to figure out is this working that you want to keep doing it, that you want to keep doing more of it?

Kelli: I think it's definitely hard to define success because I think that's defined by the individuals, too. We've had mismatches where it just didn't work. Either the mentor just wasn't investing the time, or they just had a personality conflict. Usually, that bubbles up at the management level. So I'll check in, I'm like, "How's it going with your mentor, or are you having your regular meetings? How's it going?" And then they'll let me know. And so that has happened where we just maybe made a mismatch, or the person isn't giving the time that they should be giving to it. So we'll make changes. We've made changes before.

Michael: I guess I'm also curious just in that context, you had said, feedback's kind of big for you overall because it's part of the constantly improving core value of gathering the feedback to figure out how to constantly improve. So have you implemented ways to structure, to make sure that you're getting the flow of feedback that you want as the firm gets bigger, and there's more people.

Kelli: I don't know that we have a great structure other than us checking in and making sure that we ask about it at those monthly meetings. So I don't think that we have a great protocol there yet.

Michael: Yet. Does that mean you're pondering something right now?

Kelli: No, but you're making me think that I'm like, "Okay, we need to do this."

Michael: So what comes next in this evolution for how the firm is trying to build and solidify sort of core values, culture, staying connected as a growing team?

Kelli: We're constantly evolving. There's a sticky note on my computer that says, "Excellence is a moving target." And I truly believe that. I saw that a couple of years ago and I was like, "That is exactly who we are as a firm." But there's always something that we're working on. We are focused, obviously, on growth. That's a big part of what I'm focused on. But we have our 1-year goal, we have our 3-year goal, we have our 10-year goal. We have what we call our rocks quarterly. So each quarter we're looking at, "What are the things we're going to focus on?" For example, a big part of my job is the marketing of the firm, which is something we literally started from scratch. We didn't do any marketing 10, 12 years ago. We've been taking baby steps, and it's something that we're way more focused on the last 2 years than we've ever been. But there are things that I'm trying to accomplish on a quarterly basis, and it's listed for the firm to see.

Same with the investment committee, same with the wealth advisory committee. I mentioned before, we have a goal of 60 net new clients this year. And that's part of the goal, too. And then we're looking out at up to 10 years from now. And we're planning to grow organically. We are not doing M&A. It's mostly because we want maintain our culture. So I feel like we are taking a little bit of the harder path, and the fact that we need to grow with our team.

Focusing Attention On Marketing To Boost Organic Growth [1:00:29]

Michael: So then I am curious, what kind of marketing initiatives and things are you doing? I think a lot of advisory firms, most of us have never really had very much of a centralized marketing function or marketing at the firm level. It was effectively advisors get clients, and the most successful advisors get more clients, and go ask for more referrals and do more networking, get in your community, and go find you some more clients. So I'm curious what you're working on from a marketing perspective at the firm. Is it that kind of approach and you're simply trying to amplify it, or are you doing new and different things at the firm level that haven't done before?

Kelli: We're definitely doing it at the firm level and they are all new and different. I would say we started on this path 10 years ago or so. We hadn't redone our website in 20 years, and so we did that. We changed it since then. We have an outsourced marketing team. We actually don't do anything in-house. I oversee it, and I just recently had 2 associates start helping me as well. But we have a great PR team, we have an SEO team. We do a lot of search type blogs that we write ourselves. We've run social ads. We did try LinkedIn. We're not currently doing that. We're more focused on Meta right now. We do what are, I feel like, the basics. We have organic social on a daily basis. We do client and prospect newsletters, we've done webinars, we do in-person events, we've done landing pages. We have tried pay-per-click ads. We are not currently doing that. It was just too expensive and we couldn't compete.

And then we're looking at different things. I just met with our PR team yesterday with our CIO Brian Spinelli to talk about a LinkedIn e-book on one of the investment strategies we're running. We've looked at doing a podcast like you, but we have not yet. I know video's huge right now, so we just hired a new video firm that we're working with to try and create some better video marketing for ourselves, and hopefully eventually do some YouTube ads since we keep hearing that that's a really good place to be. I'm sure we'll go back and look at LinkedIn again at some point. Honestly, we've tried everything. For someone that this is a small part of my job, I think we've been pretty aggressive in trying a lot of different things.

Michael: So are you finding any in particular that are working for you that you're getting some traction with?

Kelli: Yeah, I think definitely our SEO effort has definitely paid off. Especially in our location optimization, that seems it's working really well.

Michael: So meaning, local SEO, just when someone searches "financial advisor Long Beach, California," because that's where they are, you come up?

Kelli: We do on keywords. They're constantly changing what keywords they're optimizing, but I have seen direct hits off of that. We've seen direct hits off of some of our PR efforts where we've gotten...

Michael: What kind of PR?

Kelli: We do writing for Kiplinger. We're mentioned a lot in a lot of the different publications, whether it's consumer focused or more trades. We'll do conference speaking. So we've seen some good hits off some of those mentions as well.

Michael: Anything else, or are SEO and PR the main 2 that are driving some outcomes for you so far?

Kelli: Those are the ones that seem to be working the best. Like I said, we just got started with some new social ads on Meta, so I'm curious to see how that will turn out. But it's just too new. Oh, the webinars and events have helped a little bit too. And we've done a couple of those as well. But we haven't been as steady on those. That's something that I'm focused on, starting this quarter, is try to have a more regular plan for those, now that I have a little more help on these efforts.

Hiring A Sales Coach To Help Firm Advisors Close More Clients [1:04:52]

Michael: So what comes next for you?

Kelli: It's always evolving. I feel like marketing is like, "Okay, we're doing that." So I've been more focused on how we get more yeses. And so we hired a sales coach a couple of years ago. I feel like that's in place now. I just started working...

Michael: Who did you hire as a sales coach? I feel like that's a hard thing in a fiduciary, fee-only world. We tend to really not like the word sales. So we tend to really not like the word sales coach.

Kelli: Yes, it was a hard sell. It took us about 3 years to actually be able to hire someone. It was definitely not something the firm was ready to invest in. But because we're so growth minded a lot, and because most of our advisors were not hired to be salespeople, they didn't have the skill set for that, but we felt like it was really important. We interviewed quite a few sales coaches. JC and I did most of those interviews. And we found a good place. We actually work with someone out of Georgia. His name is Mark McGraw. He's with Sandler Training. Sandler's like a system that you use in sales. I think he meshes really well with who we are as a firm.

It was funny. He did a discovery call on us that matches exactly how we get to know prospects. And so after we did that, again, that iceberg thing that you mentioned, you hear what they want to tell you at first, and then as you start digging, you uncover kind of really what's deeper in their thinking, and how they think about things, and why they think about things, and what they're really looking for, and what their pain points are. And he did that to us. And that kind of was the selling point for JC and I. We were like, "Okay, you definitely match with what we're trying to do here.

Michael: Interesting.

Kelli: We still have people in our firm that are scared of the word sales and sales coach. I think of it more, you kind of have to change our mindset here. It's more of just giving you some technique to understand better where people are coming from, and ask more questions. I think sometimes sales is all about asking questions. And so I think that if you can have some techniques to ask better questions, I think that that's something valuable that he's been able to give us.

Michael: So I'm just curious, how did you get people on board to do this, and how did this actually roll out?

Kelli: Yeah, again, a hard project, a hard thing to do. And I don't think everyone's completely bought in, I'll be honest, but I think majority of people have. But we just focused on the part of our sales team that is looking to grow. So there's about 15 of them that are actively trying to grow their books. And so we didn't make it mandatory, but we kind of made it mandatory at the beginning. I think, at this point, it's something that most people want to participate in that are participating in it. Any new advisor, it's like we have our associate wealth advisors that are kind of advisors in training at this point. They are required to be a part of it. I think it just helps in general with communication, and how to communicate with people better.

But yeah, like I said, we didn't make it mandatory, but we kind of said, "Okay, this is something we're going to do." We meet with him on a monthly basis for an hour and a half. We have different topics that we talk about. And if we're noticing a trend that we need to focus on, where a lot of stuff is getting stalled after our proposal meeting, or we're seeing this result that we would like to see better, then we focus on that, too. He also helped us create scripts for all of our different parts of our sales processes. They're called place sheets. So at any one time, if they're talking to someone that's a new prospect, it gives them kind of talking points or scripts that they can use as a starting point to have those conversations. And that's for each of the processes, our sales process.

Michael: Does everyone come together? Is this Mark and 15 boxes on the Zoom window kind of thing at this point?

Kelli: Yep, exactly. So it's the management, so the management team is on it too. So Cecelia, JC, and myself, and Brian Spinelli, our CIO, is also there. So it's the 4 of us, and then all of the advisors that are participating. He's in Georgia, so he does do everything via Zoom. He has come out once a year to do kind of our goal planning session. Usually, happens in November or December, and he's done that the last 2 years in person. And actually, we expanded that so the entire firm can participate in kind of a goal setting exercise that's centered around values.

Michael: Interesting. Interesting. And so this is now just part of the ongoing fabric of the firm that we're getting feedback, and trying to improve on our sales process.

Kelli: Exactly. And so we've been doing it almost 3 years. I definitely think we have more buy-in than we did when we started. I definitely think there's still the skeptics in the room that haven't completely bought in. But the people that are following the process and following what they call Sandler rules, definitely, you can see a difference in their close rate, and how they're doing as far as new business goes.

Michael: I was going to ask, at the end of the day, if they're 3 years in, can you tell that there are better results for the people that are more embracing of the program, and trying to learn and adapt with it?

Kelli: Definitely. I can see a marked difference between the people...they also encourage...it's called a scorecard, and you have your daily or weekly activities that you're marking off that you're doing, whatever those things should be that would support your sales process, and the people that are following that, and doing that. I can see a huge difference.

Michael: Very cool. And so it sounds like the work with Mark was probably a more intense upfront training into the process and building your scripts and your play sheets and such. And now that you've done that initially, it's more of the ongoing monthly coaching call with everyone for an hour and a half, "Where we are struggling, let's talk through some tools and techniques."

Kelli: Yeah, I would say it was definitely more upfront, but there's new things that we're always constantly changing or adjusting or optimizing too. Mark is also available for any of our individuals at any point. They can schedule a 20-minute session with him to talk through a prospect that they're struggling with, or they're not sure what their next step should be. The people that are utilizing those one on ones I've seen a huge improvement with too. He gives you some good talking points, or ways, what he calls reversing, asking follow-up questions that make sense in that situation. But yeah, I have definitely seen a marked difference in the people that are embracing it.

Michael: So for folks who are listening, this is episode 399. So if you go to kitces.com/399, we'll have links out for anyone who wants to track down Mark McGraw at Sandler. I'm going to guess there's a few people that are maybe interested in figuring out how to firm up their own sales process.

What Surprised Kelli The Most In Building New Programs Within A Longstanding Firm [1:12:42]

Michael: So as you go down these path from building more deeply into, I guess, culture, institutionalized in the culture, building mentoring programs, building marketing, what surprised you the most about trying to build these programs in a long standing firm?

Kelli: I would say that people are reluctant to change, as far as internally. It's funny because I actually dislike change in my personal life, but I love change at work. And I also am surprised at how long things take to work too. It's not like you can just try something and determine whether it's going to work or not. A lot of these are long plays that, I think, because we're still just getting started, I'm not sure exactly what's going to work.

Michael: Is that in terms of the marketing side in particular?

Kelli: That would be in the marketing side, yeah.

Michael: What about in terms of just all of this structure around culture, meetings, communication, team recognition, all the work that you've been doing in that end?

Kelli: I think that people don't realize how much work it is. Like, I think that you have to have dedicated people thinking about things like this, and making sure that you're maintaining the culture that you want to maintain at the firm. It's not like you can just do this on the side. You have to actually fully embrace what the culture is, what you want it to look like, and make sure it's being maintained. And if it's not, then addressing the issues, having those fearless conversations, and making sure that we get back on track, "This is not who we are as a firm, we need to get back to what we're focused on."

Michael: Well, I know you've been at the firm for a long time. I guess I'm also just curious in context, when did you start and how big was the firm when you got there originally?

Kelli: Yeah. So I started 17 years ago. I just celebrated 17 years in March. Gosh, we were probably 20 employees when I started. I started in 2007. So right before 2008.

Michael: Fun time to start.

Kelli: Yes, I was very lucky. That was one of the things that made it very sticky to stay here. I was the newest hire and they kept me. We've actually never had to do a layoff in the history of the firm. The individuals at our firm are number one. And so we cut everything else. But they kept me. And so we were under $2 billion when I started as well, so much smaller as far as assets, too.

How Kelli Crafted A Position To Meet Her Strengths After Deciding Against The Advisor Track [1:15:31]

Michael: So what was the low point for you on this career journey?

Kelli: 17 years, there's been a couple. But I would say the biggest one that comes to mind is senior leadership…and this was years and years ago, I was not part of it, was really pushing me towards being an advisor, and I knew it wasn't something that I had a lot of passion for. The numbers and the stats and all that stuff isn't...wasn't really the technical part of the job was not for me. But I did agree to take the CFP because the CFP is something that's required to be an advisor at our firm. Unfortunately, I gave it my all, but I did not pass the test. This was back when it was a 2-day written test. I was at UCLA once a month for a whole weekend. I think it was a big turning point for me because I was like, "I'm not going to be on the typical path. And does this make sense for me to stay, and try and create a place for myself here, or is it time for me to move on?"

I loved the firm, but I also was really hungry to have success. It was just going to take a little bit longer to figure out what made sense as far as my place at the firm. So I think that was like probably the lowest point for me. But I'm glad that I held on and regrouped, and got some guidance on, I knew where my value was. I knew where my skillset was. And we just had to create a position for me over the years.

Michael: So what role had you come into originally, because I'm inferring you weren't originally joining to be on an advisor track from day one if they were nudging you that direction?

Kelli: Yeah, I was an associate client service manager. So it's kind of just an entry level, you do paperwork, and you do some basic servicing. That is kind of our entry point at the firm. It still is to this day. And then people, they go on different paths from there.

Michael: Okay. So I'm taking you were in the client service manager role, they nudge you in the direction the CFP marks. That didn't work out. So where did you pivot next? Were did you land as you went through that transition?

Kelli: Yeah, I was a client service manager still, but then I started working on a lot of projects. I identified, "There's a weak point, let's do this." JC, our CEO now, and my boss for 17 years, was like, "You can handle a large volume." I feel like that's one of my best skill sets is I can handle a lot. And so he's like, "Let's create workflows. Let's create processes around everything that we do that every team can work on." So that was a big push for something that I worked on.

Kelli: So I worked on that. I created our intern program. That was a big milestone because we didn't have an intern program, but I had a lot of passion for that as well. I also worked on the project where we created our discovery process, which we call Select. That was possibly the hardest project I've ever done in my career, is implementing that, and learning the process from a Ph.D. in San Francisco. And so I just started working on a lot of things that fit my skill level. And then they did promote me to director of marketing and client experience. So that was my next big role at the firm.

Michael: So director of marketing and client experience. And what was that role?

Kelli: Just getting started with our marketing. So that's where we started taking baby steps. We hired a PR firm, we hired a designer to redo the website. So that was a piece of it. I oversaw all of our client service teams. I became a manager, so I was managing people directly. That's been a big part of my job as well. I oversaw our discovery call team. So it really kind of held a lot of different positions in one.

The Advice Kelli Would Give To Her Younger Self [1:19:58]

Michael: What do you know now about this path that you wish you could go back and tell you from 10, 15 ago as you were early stage in your career?

Kelli: Well, I was very, very shy when I started. So I think the big, big takeaway that I wish I would have not been so afraid of things. I tried a lot of new things. I definitely pushed myself out of my comfort zone, but it was definitely a very slow process. I was reluctant to try new things. I used to be a nervous wreck even answering the phone at the office because that was part of my original role. So I really think that I wish I was not so insecure, that it was all going to work out, that I had the skill sets to be successful in this business, even if it was different and I would add value. I wish I would have believed that way sooner.

Michael: So what was holding you back from not believing it?

Kelli: Oh, I think I just needed to grow into myself. I think it was a process. It was all me. It was all my own personal insecurity. I had tons of support here at the firm. JC Abusaid, he's been my direct boss all 17 years. He's been a great mentor. He's a great friend. I have a great support system in a lot of the individuals that I still work with, Cecilia Williams is our COO and my best friend, and we've literally grown up here together. But it was all internal. It had nothing to do with anyone else. But I needed to grow into myself. I needed to challenge myself, I needed to try new things. And I wish I would have started doing that sooner. I think the evolution would have happened a lot faster.

Michael: Was there some turning point where it clicked or suddenly you knew this was the thing.

Kelli: I think, honestly, it was more my personal life. I met my husband, I became a mom, things happened and I realized, "I need to know what my priorities here are in life again." But I think it was just, again, putting myself out there a little bit more, and doing things I didn't think I could do. And I started attending networking events, which is something I would never have done. I took an interview with one of the publications for a PR opportunity, which is something I said I would never do. There were things that I had decided in my head that I couldn't do, and I just pushed through them and tried them. And I feel like that has been like my little baby stepping stone to having more confidence, and feeling like I can do this, and more confidence.

Kelli's Advice For Women Entering The Financial Advice Industry [1:22:45]

Michael: So what advice would you give women looking to come into the industry today and trying to figure out or find a path?

Kelli: I think, make sure you find a place that you can grow. Make sure you find a place that values you. Make sure you find someone that can advocate for you. I've had that and it's very powerful. And don't be afraid of things. Try different things. Not every path is a straight path. I love it in our firm because we've created new roles. A lot of the roles that we have in the firm right now did not exist when I started here. And obviously, you have to wait until the firm is big enough to be able to do that. But I think if you know what you bring to the table, where you're valuable, if you can bring that and create a role for yourself, I think that is very powerful.

What Success Means To Kelli [1:23:41]

Michael: So, Kelli, as we come to the end, this is a podcast about success. And just one of the themes that comes up is the word success means very different things to different people. And so you've had this wonderful 17-year career successfully building from, I guess, from literally entry level CSM up to the leadership team of the firm. And so have had a wonderful successful career arc from the business end. How do you define success for yourself at this point?

Kelli: Yeah, I think that definitely my number one priority is my family. So providing the best life for my family. I was really fortunate in the fact that my parents gave me a really good place to start. And I felt like I was really well set up. So I'm trying to do the same thing for my kids. Building and maintaining strong friendships has been a big part of the success of my life too. I'm so lucky the fact that I'm not only coworkers with Cecilia and JC, but they are also some of my closest friends. And then also, we talked about mentorship. Seeing people reach their goals and their full capacity, I think that's the biggest success that I see in people. I wouldn't be here today if I didn't have that kind of support growing up and growing up in my career. That really, I think, is...that's the best success that I could have.

And as far as my career too, staying challenged in my career was also how I determined success. If I'm not, like I said, reinventing myself or trying something new, then I do get bored very easily. And so I feel like that is a big part of how I define success too, because if I don't feel fulfilled, then it just doesn't feel as good when it happens. So those would be the kind of the milestones of how I define success.

Michael: Very cool. Very cool. Thank you so much, Kelli, for joining us on the "Financial Advisor Success" podcast.

Kelli: Thank you, Michael. It was a pleasure talking to you today.

Michael: Thank you.